Rev. Dr. Luke A. Powery—Dean of Duke University Chapel and professor of homiletics, joins me this week for a candid reflection on patience, perseverance, and the grace of learning to belong to an imperfect church community. This exchange from our interview is a highlight to me. Powery reminds us that “no congregation… is perfect,” yet God forms a living body from imperfect people. The wisdom here, as I see it, is both pastoral and practical: resist idolizing the institution, and return to the center—Jesus.

For more on Rev. Dr. Powery’s ministry, explore Duke Chapel and his work at the intersection of preaching, song, and community.

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Rev. Dr. Katie Givens Kime
Thinking about right now, the people in our audience, listening, who are curious about Christianity, maybe haven't yet gone to church. What would you say about just patience and perseverance, and how to find that experience? Besides, of course, listening to Day1, and that's all fine and good, [laughter] but to be with people.

Rev. Dr. Luke Powery
Yeah, yeah, I mean, people are longing for that.

Rev. Dr. Katie Givens Kime
They are.

Rev. Dr. Luke Powery
But I do think what you just said—patience, perseverance... You know, no congregation, if we're talking about churches, is perfect.

Rev. Dr. Katie Givens Kime
No.

Rev. Dr. Luke Powery
I mean, no one, no place, right? So you've got to have that reality check.

And so, to be open enough to, in some sense, know that there's going to be imperfections in the music or the preaching, or whatever. Even the community, the Bible study, the fellowship hour—it's cold coffee or whatever. It's imperfect, but that's who Christ has called. We're imperfect people.

But the other piece—let's be very careful that we don't necessarily equate—

Rev. Dr. Katie Givens Kime
Because we don't worship church, we worship Jesus.

Rev. Dr. Luke Powery
Right, exactly.

Rev. Dr. Katie Givens Kime
Yeah.

Rev. Dr. Luke Powery
And sometimes that gets confused, people confuse that, and you lose sight. You gotta go through all the bureacurcy, and, you know, you got your rules order? Yeah,

Rev. Dr. Katie Givens Kime
'Cause people.

Rev. Dr. Luke Powery
Humans.

Rev. Dr. Luke Powery
I like to say, humans.

Rev. Dr. Katie Givens Kime
Humans. Humans! [laughter]

Rev. Dr. Luke Powery

And so just to have that, you know, don't expect something perfect from our Christian community, but it is a place, somehow, that, together, we form the Body of Christ. And there's room, you know, there's room for everyone.

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